Swine Nutrition with Tracy Meyer-Milson

In this episode of The Real P3 Podcast, Chantel Pennicott and Aryeri Bardales sit down with Tracy Meyer Milson, swine nutritionist and founder of OptiHog, to explore a simple but often overlooked concept in modern production: less is more.

Tracy shares her journey from growing up on a pig farm in South Africa to launching her own nutrition consultancy, bringing decades of experience across global production systems. Her perspective challenges the industry’s tendency to overcomplicate diets with excessive additives, instead emphasizing a return to fundamental nutrition principles and practical decision making. 

The conversation dives into the growing complexity of feed formulation and how advancements in genetics, technology, and additive availability can sometimes lead producers away from what truly drives performance. Tracy explains why focusing on core nutritional building blocks, protein, energy, fiber, and fats, often delivers better outcomes than layering multiple solutions without clear purpose. 

A key segment of the episode focuses on mycotoxin management, where the group discusses the widespread use, and misuse, of toxin binders across different regions. From South Africa’s high contamination challenges to routine inclusion practices in the United States, the discussion highlights the risks of “just in case” decisions, false security, and the importance of testing, strategy, and targeted use. 

The episode also explores beta agonists as a performance tool, examining their benefits, limitations, and the critical role of timing, environment, and animal welfare. Tracy and Aryeri emphasize that no additive can compensate for poor management, and that pushing for more performance without balance can negatively impact both animals and people. 

Beyond nutrition, the conversation expands into the human side of production. From farm staff engagement to communication between nutritionists and producers, the group underscores how people ultimately determine animal outcomes. As Tracy puts it, a holistic approach that values both technical precision and human factors is essential for sustainable success. 

Whether you are a nutritionist, producer, or industry professional, this episode offers a grounded perspective on simplifying decision making, evaluating additives with purpose, and building systems that balance performance, welfare, and profitability.

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Transcript

0:00:00
(Chantel Pennicott)
So good morning, everyone, or good afternoon to Tracy all the way in South Africa. Although I am South African, I'm here in the US. And then we also have Audrey from Honduras, also here in the US. I'll introduce everyone in a second, but I just wanted to welcome everyone back to The Real P3. Everybody knows who I am. I've been on here quite a few times by now. 

0:00:22
(Chantel Pennicott)
I'm Chantal Pennycott, Nutrition Innovation Manager here at Animistic. And then we have Audrey, who is new to our team or not so new to Dr. Casey Bradley, but new to me at least. And she will be our new host for The Real P3. She is originally from Honduras, like I said, and moved to Florida or actually South Dakota, then Florida, and then Iowa. So she just can't get away from the Midwest. She's definitely passionate about pigs, clearly. 

0:00:50
(Chantel Pennicott)
And then we have Tracy who is, like I said, South African and a swine nutritionist who recently started OptiHog. So if each of you want to just introduce yourselves a little bit more, go Audrey. 

0:01:06
(Aryeri Bardales)
Hi everyone. I think that's a lot of people. you maybe know me, so no, but well, I came here to the United States at least three or four years ago in an internship for Smithfield, and then I felt really a lot of patience for the piece, and I decided, okay, I can continue to study this, and I decided to apply for a master's degree in South Dakota State University. Then the last year, I just graduated, and And then I decided to go to the industry in Florida for a couple months. And then, like Chantal said, the Midwood is calling my name again. So now I am here, enjoying the weather especially, and also working with the pig, the poultry. 

0:01:58
(Aryeri Bardales)
And yeah, that is my history. for now and ready to continue writing again in my new history here. 

0:02:05
(Chantel Pennicott)
We are really glad to have you. And we're so excited to have you on the team. Tracy, you recently started OptiHog. I'm excited to hear a bit more about it. I did see you at DPP, and that's where we reconnected, but we didn't speak so much about your new venture. 

0:02:21
(Tracy)
Yes. So thanks. Thanks, Chantal. And hi, everyone. Yeah, I did a big jump at the beginning of this year and decided to start my own business. and it was very much driven from the heart. 

0:02:35
(Tracy)
It was something that I had been thinking about for a long time and yeah I decided kind of in my mid -40s maybe it was time to make the take the plunge and make the change and do something for myself. I'm incredibly passionate about nutrition. I'm born and bred on a pig farm. My family are still very much pig farmers so it just feels incredibly natural to me. It's an environment that I feel the most at home in and so yeah just as always been something up from when I finished studying, I've always been in the pig industry. And for the most part, probably the last 10 years very much specializing in it. 

0:03:12
(Tracy)
So this is the I'm nine months into being self -employed. 

0:03:19
(Chantel Pennicott)
Almost a year, almost the birthday. What actually brought about this episode, Tracy and Audrey may not even know this, is when after we connected at, reconnected at DPP, we started just exchanging emails, speaking about different feed additives, questions from South Africa, from a US perspective, maybe Audrey will have a different perspective as well. So I just think it's really cool that we are able these days to exchange that information a lot more efficiently than in the past and just be open with each other and, you know, the purpose or the title of this episode is less is more. So we'll get a little bit into that in a second. But yeah, I just wanted to speak a bit more about why this episode came about. 

0:04:08
(Aryeri Bardales)
Well let's start with the first question that is will come from me. Tracy you are saying or a lot of people is saying that less is more but when it when it's coming to nutrition uh what do you mean or what do people means that less is more? 

0:04:28
(Tracy)
So how to feel it's come about is that I think it's an industry And the way the world is moving in every industry, right? There's just so much knowledge and there's so much technology around and available for us. And genetically, our animals are just improving depending on which company you work with on the genetic front. There's just improvement all the time. And it feels a little bit like we're getting lost. I feel personally that we're a little bit getting lost in trying to do better with more. 

0:05:02
(Tracy)
than just getting back to basics. An animal is an animal and biologically it can only give us so much. And I think if we try and push it more than what it's biologically able to do, I think we sometimes, we get unstuck. So my strategy this year is really to try and just break things down a bit and really go back to what I've learned 20 years ago, just the fundamental nutrition building blocks. protein fats, fibers, energy, you know, what, what is it that those animals need? And, and then kind of on top of that with all the extra stuff, and, you know, Chantal can, can attest to it, Africa, South Africa is very different to Africa, right? 

0:05:46
(Tracy)
I think people sometimes think we're all the same, but we're really not, we're not. first world country in a kind of a third world continent. But I've had the privilege of traveling into Africa and I've seen farmers and the results that they get in Africa is incredible. And they do it with nothing. 

0:06:03
(Chantel Pennicott)
Management. We actually had an episode with Philip from Zimbabwe on management. 

0:06:10
(Tracy)
like it's incredible and it always brings me back to earth when I go there and I come back and I think oh my goodness what can I do better for my customers to not over the formulations for them because at the end of the day it's costing their money right so how can I make sure that I can give them the best nutrition for the animals without getting caught up in the nice to haves that we're all overwhelmed with in the industry. 

0:06:40
(Chantel Pennicott)
And when you have so many things and you have a problem, you don't actually know what is helping, what is hindering. You have 20 things to look at instead of three things to look at. 

0:06:52
(Aryeri Bardales)
Exactly. Actually, it's a lot of conversation. between what is the difference in the management in South Africa and in the United States. But now the question that are coming to my mind is what will be the difference between these three regions in Latin America? Because I am from Latin America and all my background in swine and all this stuff are here in the United States, so I have a little bit of knowledge in Latin America, so it will be interesting to look at it. I think one of my biggest life lessons that I've learned now, kind of in the last few years, is that we've got to be very careful not to get caught up in recommendations that come globally, because often they're driven not necessarily because of the best interest of the animal, but there's a lot of political and 

0:07:45
(Tracy)
government registrations and regulations in it. And that we don't always need to copy paste the rules for Europe in Africa or in America or South America. And it's difficult because you have to kind of iron that all out. But I've seen how in South Africa, there's a lot of restrictions we don't have. So yes, down the road, maybe there's time, but now it's got to be different hacks. We've got to be careful not to get caught into prescribing and following rules that maybe aren't applicable to the environment in the state we're in. 

0:08:22
(Chantel Pennicott)
Yeah, I mean there's different production systems, different genetics, different feed ingredients. Using the same enzyme across the world is not going to work in different feed formulations. I could just go on and on and on. Environment, yeah, there's so many so many different things that you've got to consider. When looking at feed additives, you can't just put a blanket on it because it's specific to a specific issue or problem. One of the emails I got from Tracy was about mycotoxins, asking about what mycotoxin binders we're using here in the US, how many we're using, which ones we're using, which ones we're using together, all of those things. 

0:09:07
(Chantel Pennicott)
uh mycotoxins binders as a nutritionist you know is just a standard inclusion expected that you're going to include it in there whether you are testing your corn or your maize or not um we just kind of put it in there as an in -case sort of thing so let's think about you know keeping it simple um when do we include it when not to maybe just share a little bit of background about mycotoxins both Audrey and I are not mycotoxin experts whatsoever so I definitely don't want to put a Microsoft specialist hat on or leave it to the sales people. 

0:09:40
(Tracy)
but the experience this year has been that we've, in South Africa specifically, have had a very wet maize crop and so the toxin levels from deal to storage are just It's insane. It's just everywhere. Normally at the beginning of a season, it's high and then you know, okay, we'll get out of it and everything's going to calm down, but it's not. So it's just high levels of specifically done in SEER across the board, final feed and in ingredients. Obviously when it blends itself out, right? So depending on the, on the inclusions of those specific ingredients, you're going to get different levels in the final feed. 

0:10:17
(Tracy)
But it's overwhelming. I spoke to a friend yesterday who owns a premise company in South Africa and just asked him, you know, like, how many toxin binders do you have registered? And he said, well, he knows on good record that there's over 100 toxin binders in South Africa registered for use. maybe not imported, maybe not on the floor at somebody's business, but registered to be sold into the industry. I can't fathom that, like a hundred chalks and binders, it's too much for me. So my experience a little bit on the sales side and having worn a sales hat is I can definitely see an industry, the binders that are in use have been got onto farms because of the sales people that have sold them and once those mycotoxin binders are on farm it's very difficult for farmers to change the various platforms of the binders and what they can do. 

0:11:16
(Tracy)
So everybody's using them there's I guess on one hand out of the hundred probably five in South Africa that are in use as a very you know prominent use across the board and nobody's taking them out. I had a farmer phone me a few months ago to say, what's the point? It doesn't even bind. You've got the toxin binders in the feed. We test the feed. It's high. 

0:11:45
(Tracy)
So I said to him, please don't take it out because that'll be a disaster. Let's just leave it in, but let's figure out a way that we can try something else. 

0:11:53
(Chantel Pennicott)
Yeah, I mean, I want to, I want to reiterate, I'm not attacking mycotoxin binders, they're incredibly important, incredibly important feed additive. It's just an example of, you know, something that we habitually put in there. But it's like, when do you put in there? How much do you put in there? Do you put combinations in there that target specific mycotoxin binders? I mean, In South Africa, we have a huge mycotoxin problem. 

0:12:17
(Chantel Pennicott)
We have it here in the US seasonally, not all the time, and then some mills do test for it, some don't, but it goes beyond, you know, it coming from the farms, the corn coming from the farms to the mill, it's also storage at the farm before they feed the animals. I'm not attacking mycotoxin binders, I think they're really good, but it's when do you use a single one, when do you use multiple? 

0:12:42
(Tracy)
which ones. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's where it gets so complicated because it does, it's incredibly overwhelming. And I don't think any, every nutritionist will have a specific ones that they prefer, but one can argue which one is going to be better and which one is going to get a better result. I'm not convinced that you're going to be able to test that. So it really has come down to at least my experience is that the toxin binders in use are really because of the good salesmen that have been on the farm. 

0:13:17
(Tracy)
But it's It hasn't been a nice season for us because it's, I get the results and we're at our max on a lot of farms and I can't really give more, I can't say well let's put more binder in because you know we can't just keep doing that. it's been a struggle, but it's made us have to think a little bit differently on how we then feed the animals and how we mitigate that. In farms that are able to, where they know they have specific dirty maize, are they able to separate it and feed it to the less, to maybe feed it to their finisher pigs and not their animals in reproduction, you know, in production stage. Nursery, yeah. Yeah, and so to try and do that, we unfortunately also don't have a lot of other cereal grains that can kind of dilute the problem. 

0:14:03
(Tracy)
It's maize. That's it. So it is what it is. But the toxins are coming through everywhere. It's really not just from the maize. But it's made me, it's made us have to think differently. 

0:14:14
(Tracy)
Things like almost applying a little bit of a strategy that we do in humans when it's winter and we kind of start dosing ourselves with extra vitamins and minerals. Is this maybe something we start doing on the pig side? again, you're not going to be able to exactly prove that it's working, but to just up the ingredient specs on the bitumen and minerals, so that those animals have a little bit extra when they're getting an immune challenge. So, yeah, a lot of, I think, alternative thinking processes have come along with the toxin challenges that we've had on the planet. 

0:14:44
(Chantel Pennicott)
beyond farms. Yeah. Speaking about the salesmen on their farms in South Africa, you know, and that's how you choose your mycotoxin binder. I think it's important to know that one mycotoxin binder is not going to fix them all. I got an email yesterday from a company advertising this all in one fantastic toxin binder. And I just don't see how a single product can target everything. 

0:15:12
(Chantel Pennicott)
And we are trying to keep it simple. We're not saying, you know, you need to include 20 different things for, you know, 20 different issues. But it's just important to know that you can't blanket, you can't blanket them all. I do think that feed testing is really important. you know, keeping that data, historical data, all of that stuff. I don't know. 

0:15:29
(Chantel Pennicott)
Audrey, do you have any experience with mycotoxin binders in Honduras? 

0:15:34
(Aryeri Bardales)
Well, actually, I don't know that I know, maybe, but my concern now is, for example, about the overuse or misuse and when we are mixing because in some cases what I've seen here in the United States is that we see producers adding binders almost like a routine, you know, and without actually knowing what is the contamination level or what or which mycotoxins are present, you know, so for me it's a big concern about the overuse or misuse because you know sometimes they take the consultation for a nutritionist, they just added the binder. I add this and especially when the diet is at low risk or have low risk or even when the binder doesn't make a match with the type of toxin. So this is a concern for me. What do you think about this Tracy? 

0:16:39
(Tracy)
Yeah, I think we have the same challenges. I understand that it's it can be driven sometimes a little bit by an emotional decision because you you just want to make things better and you want to fix things right and so you just put more in and or let's put a little bit of three or four different toxin binders because potentially they'll have an additive effect and they'll do what they need to do together and again it's not having any kind of scientific approach and saying okay but let's do it but what are we planning to get on the end and let's try and evaluate. So have a strategy that I think speaks into more of my lessons more is that we're going to need a meat additive. There's incredible products out there, we know that, and we see how well they work. And I'm so grateful to be in the time of the world where we are, where we have such advancement in production of these ingredients, because it adds extra value to the pigs, right? 

0:17:37
(Tracy)
It's giving them a better growth life, I guess, you know, to make, to give them more comfort. But just assess, and we need to make sure that we're, when we're doing something, and we choose a different strategy, or a different approach, that we then look and say, Okay, guys, we're going to give us three months or six months and actually try and understand, is this going to work? Are we putting it in for our heart? Are we putting it in for our head? Yeah. Sometimes it's either or. 

0:18:06
(Tracy)
And I worry, I worry a little bit that this is where, and this is what's so exciting for me is that we, we get back to kind of our grassroots and I'm not saying take everything out at all, I think we have to embrace what we have but just to be critical on our approach and how we do it and what the outcome is. 

0:18:25
(Aryeri Bardales)
I've seen this a lot and for example it's just we need to avoid the thought about just in case We will just add it just in case, because for example, Tracy, do you think that creates a failed or sense of security sometimes adding binders? Like producer might think that the binder will solve everything, you know? And when in the reality, it depends on which toxin we are dealing with that. And do you think that is creating a false sense about the binders? 

0:19:05
(Tracy)
definitely think so. I think, you know, it's, it's this whole strategy of us as nutritionists, we can, we can open into the ethics a little bit, we can give them technical, because we're all very scientific brain, right? This is, this is why we do what we do. And we formulate to the third point, we put all these additional additives in, because this is what's going to happen. And then you get to the farm, and the wrong formulation has gone into the wrong feed mill, feed bin, and you've got to grow a finisher. 

0:19:34
(Tracy)
And so all our work sitting behind the computer has failed. So the safety mechanism is not even there. So it's, we've got to try and find that balance. And for me, it's important as nutritionists that we have to be, we've got to, we have to take more, um, I don't want to say control, that's not the word, more responsibility on a farm. 

0:19:54
(Chantel Pennicott)
I don't think we give ourselves enough responsibility for what we're producing. 

0:19:58
(Tracy)
We formulate... Hide behind the formulation computer. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, and the beauty for me, I mean, I've asked Chechi BT a little bit how, you know, I'm testing the waters because I want to see if I still have a job. And I'm pretty confident that I don't think it can do it yet. as well as what we can do it and we've got to take ownership of that and we've got to keep that because we don't want to become redundant. 

0:20:26
(Tracy)
These things we know as humans in nutrition and how nutrition works, it's like baking a cake, right? If you don't do the right combinations of eggs and flour and oil, the cakes are going to rise. It doesn't matter what fancy flower you have, you have to still do it in the right combination. And then you've got to take into account altitude and oven temperature, so basically farm and genetics and health status of the herd, all those things. Yeah, that's something that AI can't quite grasp. We can't just do the safe thing anymore. 

0:20:58
(Tracy)
I think it's got to just get everything involved and invested in the formulations and the advice that we're giving. Yeah, I'm guilty of that. I, you know, a mycotoxin binder, not, I'm not guilty of the AI thing, but guilty of just putting something in there just in case, because it's always the nutritionist's fault. And then I can say, oh, but it's in there, you know, so it's not, it's not that. 

0:21:22
(Chantel Pennicott)
So we definitely need to, yeah, take more accountability and maybe be on farm more. We know what we know. So, you know, and I think it's just about backing ourselves and putting faith in what we're doing. So I also want to pick on another feed additive, or just not even a feed additive, just an extra additive. Where balance matters is beta agonists. So that's a controversial topic. 

0:21:58
(Chantel Pennicott)
I wanted to speak about it. Just my experience, you know, working at the Bainesville Swine Research Unit, we did some research on beta agonists. There were definitely some positive results, but then also, you know, it comes at a price. So they can be powerful tools. They're not always appropriate. So I just wanted to you know, get your opinion on how you think they work, if they're good, if they're bad? 

0:22:28
(Tracy)
I think if you asked me this 10 or 15 years ago, I would probably have a different answer. I think that our animals have improved incredibly in terms of the genetic ability to put on muscle, right? And for the longest time, one of the big reasons we were using the beta -agonist was because we needed to get that muscle deposited at the end. In practice, where we've removed it, we haven't seen massive carcass differences to be honest. So grading has actually been fine, but where we did see it was in the feed conversion, that did go get worse, marginally. 

0:23:15
(Tracy)
Yes. Decimal points. So I think there's still place for it. And I think it's a tool that we have at our disposal and should use where we need to and want to use it and can use it but it's pricey and it's and I think I'm excited for the years ahead because I think that there's a lot of place where maybe we need to start checking and seeing commercially on multiple batches you know is this a product that do we need it is it really giving us that extra value that it's supposed to be giving um but I'd like you know we need to do it commercially and and do it you know, repeat it and get some good results. I think next year it's one of the plans I want to do on some of the farms to try and see. 

0:24:05
(Aryeri Bardales)
Yeah, Tracy, I'm thinking that like in the life, in nutrition, in food formulation, the balance is important and is the thing that we need to take in mind. From what I am seeing in the field, better antagonists can absolutely add value, but we need to have everything else is ready, like the diet, the health, the environmental, are in good shape. Then adding a better agonist won't fix those problems, but it might even make this work. So, I've seen some cases that were producers use them like a shortcut To push performance, you know, and at the end of the cycle, and yes, you can see better results, linear carcass and better feed efficiency. But if the animal are already under heat stress or not eating really good and consistently, that's when welfare issues start to show up. And these are the things that we need to care. 

0:25:12
(Aryeri Bardales)
So do you think that part of the misunderstanding comes from the assumption that more is better? 

0:25:21
(Tracy)
Absolutely. And you said such a good word. Welfare is something that we really, I feel very passionate about it. I think as nutritionists, we really need to start speaking more about it and advocating for it because by default, we're so We're one of the biggest parts of the welfare because we're creating the food, right? We are making sure those animals are getting every single bit of food because they don't have a choice. They don't get to pick specifically. 

0:25:50
(Tracy)
They don't get to be outside. And I think better that they're not outside. We're giving them much better food inside. But more is not better. More is definitely not better. And there's this push to No, but I think it's a global thing, right? 

0:26:09
(Tracy)
It's bigger and better and it's about being efficient and sustainable. I saw a LinkedIn article where one of the girls was talking exactly about that and the blurred line between efficiency and sustainability and making sure that we are balanced with that. I always believe in my heart that farmers farm because they have an inherent love for animals and they are the custodians of the animal welfare and I don't believe for a moment that a farmer will ever choose to be cruel to an animal. It's not in their nature. And I think it's difficult for them sometimes to get the balance right in terms of making money because everything costs money. And so you've got to push. 

0:27:04
(Tracy)
And sometimes that does result in having a little bit more animal stock to the building or keeping them a little bit longer to get them a little bit heavier because the slaughter weights are going to be better. But to use a medicine or an additive that potential is going to create a more negative outcome for me as a milker. It should never be something that isn't that is done. 

0:27:28
(Chantel Pennicott)
Yeah, I mean, we've done quite a bit of research on it. And I mean, during summer heat stress, we had more mortalities, more pigs down kind of load pigs and taking four hours to do something instead of one hour. It's also, you know, animal welfare, but also like human welfare. And besides that, I think we need to just find the balance and explain the science properly, both to the consumer, to the farmer, to stakeholders, and just finding that balance of when to use it. And it certainly is a good tool if used correctly. So like the microtops and binders, feed agonists, I think any feed additive is a great tool if used properly in the appropriate environment. 

0:28:17
(Chantel Pennicott)
I think timing, timing of any feed additive, dosage of any feed additive, but especially, maybe not mycotoxins, but beta agonists, we have export considerations. So there's that, there's always the human component too. So I think there's so many things that we need to take into account and just because you can doesn't mean that you should use it. Great. Well, if everybody's happy, you don't want to speak any more about beta agonists, we can just close from here on. So, if each of you just want to share your final. 

0:28:54
(Tracy)
Okay, you go first. Okay. Well, the conversation that we are. So, it means that we need to do our job or work in our management really focused on what we want. And also is about to understanding that what truly drives the performance in the peak, the performance in your animals and. 

0:29:26
(Aryeri Bardales)
making decisions that are sustainable and also for both for animals, for the business itself, and also for us. Because I think that all these involved can give us better results than just driving one thing. 

0:29:44
(Tracy)
Yeah, I agree. A colleague of mine years ago said, we always need to remember that low nutrition is 60 % of the cost. It's not, it's sometimes not 60 % of the problems. I think always blame nutrition because it's, it's the easiest of the first targets. And absolutely, it can very much be the case. But at the end of the day, it's really about having a holistic approach to pig farming, right. 

0:30:11
(Tracy)
And for me, as one of the one of the things I always ask when I go to pig farm with the managers is how the staff like how's the relationship? Is everybody happy? People? want to people that are not happy it doesn't matter what business you're doing and what job you have if you're not happy doing it and you're not being treated fairly you're not going to do a good job and human beings are the part of the business right so they're the ones that are going to make our animals grow and they're giving our animals the food so for me that's such an important part of of our job is just to make sure that the humans are are treated well and and respected and and given opportunity to grow and also for them to understand their role because we all play an important part in the bigger picture in this whole circle everybody's got a role and if you can uplift if we're going to uplift each other and make each other feel valued in the business that we're in then everything is going to be better. It doesn't matter. 

0:31:07
(Tracy)
So it makes your job easier. 

0:31:08
(Aryeri Bardales)
Now that you are saying this, it's coming from my one comment that when I was in Smithfield, one of the workers told me and he said, Argyri, if you care about the people, the people will care about the anima. So it is important to have happy people in your farm and this will be better. Yeah. 

0:31:33
(Chantel Pennicott)
I couldn't agree more. I'm so passionate about training people, but the importance of training, there's no point telling them X, Y, Z. You need to tell them why we do things. If they want to do it, they will do it well. 

0:31:46
(Tracy)
Exactly. And it really does make all our jobs just a lot easier. And the welfare of the animal is better because it's getting looked after with a person that's passionate to be there and to wake up and And they're the ones seeing the animals every day, working with the animals every day, too, so they can give you good feedback to help you with your job later. Sorry, say that again. No, no, you go. No, I was going to say, I think that one of the, I don't think we should ever stop learning. 

0:32:25
(Tracy)
I think that there's so much that we can all learn. And Google is an incredible tool, but it's about speaking to people. And that's why I like, so I enjoy connecting with you guys and have these open relationships and discussions and not feeling as you can't share because it's between you. competitive, you know, sharing RP and, you know, you're gonna lose your competitive advantage. We will all do better and our farmers will all do better if we can share and exchange knowledge. And because of our security issues, you know, when I was little, you just used to go to pig farms and just go and visit everybody. 

0:32:58
(Tracy)
And there was no issues. Well, it probably was under seas if we hadn't realized it. We don't get those opportunities anymore to connect as much. So there's such value in speaking to each other and meeting each other, farm to farm or nutritionist to nutritionist, to just learn different tools and techniques that we can apply in each other's businesses. 

0:33:22
(Chantel Pennicott)
I think the biggest takeaway from this podcast is to really just keep it simple. As an innovation manager, I can really get into the nitty gritty of things, make things super complicated, but I think it's possible for innovation and simplicity to exist together. And I think that should really be the goal of, you know, nutritionists, farm managers, everybody from all the investors, everything, you know, keep it simple as possible while still pushing through for innovation. One thing that's really important is, you know, we discuss good communication between nutritionists, to your farm workers, to your general managers, everybody. So exchanging data, I think, is incredibly important. Like you said, you know, I don't think it's gonna hinder anybody's IP, you know, to a point, obviously, but I think it'll help us all in the end. 

0:34:15
(Chantel Pennicott)
And I think we all need to work together better with that. Um, so from laces, more nutrition to data -driven decisions, it all comes down to purpose. So I really want to thank both of you. I want to welcome Audrey to the Real P3 team. And I want to thank Tracy for, for sharing her experience and Octahog. So really grateful for that. 

0:34:35
(Chantel Pennicott)
have you both. I'm really excited. I love podcast recordings. So hopefully we can do one in the future. 

0:34:42
(Aryeri Bardales)
Yeah, thank you so much. 

0:34:44
(Tracy)
It's been a good chat.